color questions

[spazzydog]

Well here's the thing. I still don't have Chinook's papers because I did not send proof to her that he is in fact neutered (I am still upset with her over his surgery) BUT according to the CKC she HAS to send me the papers within 6 months! or if I complain, it is a rather large fine for her. PLUS, if you ever want to do any CKC sanctioned events like agility, obedience, rally-o, herding etc. you have to have the papers!

Still thats only ckc sanctioned events.....to the common person There are alot of other events that dogs can do that aren't sanctioned.The okanagan has many agility clubs that your dog doesnt need papers to join.They host events and travel.Not to mention most people don't give a lick if their companion dog has papers.
A pet store in vernon was selling Shelti x's for $900 ....$900 they all sold! You can get purebreds cheaper then some xs nowadays...sadly in some breeds the xs are coming out better with less genetic flaws and health problems then some of the Overly inbred purebreds.Every dog ive ever owned b4 my shelties(well parents owned)came from the spca.Many people i've talked with believe mutts make better companion animals


Now THAT should get the thread rolling Barb.

Opinions stated in this thread do not necessarily represent the views of the writer.I've talked to many people about this.

 

[Ania]

I know that, all I was saying is that you may need the papers. I know I do. I want to do competitive sports/events with my two. I never knew that I needed papers for that until just recently (hence, Chinook cannot even if I wanted to, do the herding this September - I don't have his papers) I just thought that unless I wanted a 'show' dog, I did not need the papers for anything. As it turns out, I was wrong.

And yes, I do think that many 'mutts' are very healthy and may be healthier than purebreds, due to the inbreeding that goes on. Usually, they are known to live longer.

Yes, these 'designer' dogs are very very expensive and it seems the demand is there for them. It is still a mutt. They are cute however, but I would not trade my shelties in for anything!!!

 

[spazzydog]

lol ss I had just read the color thread that was closed cover to cover.....I wasn't meaning that in a bad way.

I love shelties,If i bred I'd not be in it for the money etc.To me my female has it all,Intellagence,grace,looks,speed for agility,and the most patience i've seen on a smaller breed(I have a 2 yr old boy and 4 yr old girl)now thats patience.

I guess i get frusterated when people(not you ania)imply that the only animals that are worth breeding are champions.Thats great if you want to show,but what about all the familys out there that just want the pleasure of having a sheltie in their life playing ball out in their bk yards with the kids,do they need champions?
Its like the world of horses.....Theres no point in putting your kid in 4h anymore cause they'll get eaten alive when they enter the Real show world.My 1st horse cost $400 and used to kick (_l_) on all the regestered horses in barrells...But now you want to get into the show world that'll be $1500 for a used show saddle $200-400 for clothes its almost getting to the point where its less about the animals and more about the prestige of the owners.I don't feel that horse or dog ownership should be limited to the wealthy.

Now puppymills thats a whole nother subject But the dreaded byb,I don't see the terrible thing there so long as they are are raising healthy,happy well adjusted pups.They're providing puppies to the working class of people that want to have a beautiful pup in the back yard and still be able too afford to feed them.Not everyone can afford the regestered champion bloodlines.

 

[Smudge]

I guess i get frusterated when people(not you ania)imply that the only animals that are worth breeding are champions.Thats great if you want to show,but what about all the familys out there that just want the pleasure of having a sheltie in their life playing ball out in their bk yards with the kids,do they need champions?

BYB are not evil by any means. The problems I have with them is that a lot of them don't test their animals. They say "this dog is nice and this dog is nice so let's have puppies!" Just because you are proud of your dog doesn't mean that you should breed them. It's about the quality of the dog for me. Show people take pride in their lines and go through extra lengths to make sure their dogs and puppies stay healthy. They have motivation. I hear people at work say all the time that their dogs have puppies, and they are trying to sell them. Just because you have a friendly dog doesn't mean you should breed. Just because you have a healthy dog doesn't mean you should breed.

There are people on this website who don't show their dogs and breed them. I'm fine with that, too. As long as you research, test, don't force your animals to live in a cage with extreme conditions outside then I don't have a problem with it. I really, really don't think it is a decision anybody should take lightly though. I still think getting pets fixed is the best route to go. Also, you want to make sure you are breeding purebred shelties that meet the standard. Like not breeding a collie sized sheltie with an undersized sheltie and hoping for the best. There's a reason we all love shelties. Let's not breed those traits out.

 

[Caro]

I agree Smudge. I think the big thing about getting a dog from a registered breeder is they know the health history and have done the tests and have the knowledge about puppy growth and socialising stages. And its important to be able to go back a couple of generations because some heriditary diseases dont show themselves until later in life.

I know a lot of people with male dogs who want to mate their dog. And I have had a lot of people ask if their dog can mate with my Tully. As if. Who gets stuck with all the puppies and finding homes for them, and the risks for the mother. I think you are better off working closely with your dogs/bitch's breeder for your first litters.

 

[BarbV]

Well here's the thing. I still don't have Chinook's papers because I did not send proof to her that he is in fact neutered (I am still upset with her over his surgery) BUT according to the CKC she HAS to send me the papers within 6 months! or if I complain, it is a rather large fine for her. PLUS, if you ever want to do any CKC sanctioned events like agility, obedience, rally-o, herding etc. you have to have the papers!

I actually did get papers for Bacca in my name even though he wasn't neutered yet. I guess my breeder trusted me to follow the contract.

Indy has papers with the American Kennel Club but not in my name yet. There is some confusion about the transferring from AKC to CKC.

 

[BarbV]

I don't have his papers) I just thought that unless I wanted a 'show' dog, I did not need the papers for anything. As it turns out, I was wrong.

Maybe it's not too late??? I know that you are not on the best of terms with your breeder, but maybe working through CKC you can do something. I'm assuming he was tattoed so he can be identified.

Best of luck!

 

[BarbV]

I agree Smudge. I think the big thing about getting a dog from a registered breeder is they know the health history and have done the tests and have the knowledge about puppy growth and socialising stages. And its important to be able to go back a couple of generations because some heriditary diseases dont show themselves until later in life.

I know a lot of people with male dogs who want to mate their dog. And I have had a lot of people ask if their dog can mate with my Tully. As if. Who gets stuck with all the puppies and finding homes for them, and the risks for the mother. I think you are better off working closely with your dogs/bitch's breeder for your first litters.

I agree too - with caveats:

Registration does not guarantee everything (e.g. that the breeder did due diligence in selecting mates), but it does guarantee that you are getting a purebred Sheltie. And it does allow the potential purchaser to research what they are getting - the bloodlines, etc.

Non-registered dogs may be fantastic too, if the breeder did do their homework, as best as they could (without the benefit of a pedigree) to try to ensure the best of the breed is reproduced.

There is no one size fits all. I know of some fantastic dogs that are total melting pot of breeds too!

At the end of the day, it's buyer beware. Do your homework and understand the risks. Know the breeder, get references, etc. Never impulse buy. I know it seems like so much common sense, but I see so many people fall into the trap.

 

[BarbV]

Ok - someone asked: Does it look "like a duck, quack like a duck, then it is a duck..."

http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-pets-dogs...rand-New-Breed-Combination-W0QQAdIdZ149645221

Here's an example of of pups which are acknowledged as mixed but look and quack like Shelties.

So someone purchases one of these pups and breeds it to another Sheltie or Sheltie-mix. Still might look like a Sheltie, but is it a Sheltie any more? Nope. It's a mutt.

So I maintain, without pedigree, its not a Sheltie because you just don't know what in there.

Can you still be getting a great dog! You bet!

 

[Smudge]

I understand all too well that just because your sheltie has papers doesn't mean that it comes from a good bloodline. It also doesn't mean that just because your puppy/dog has papers that they will be disease free and live a long, healthy life. Puppy mills can/will/do have regristration papers.