I whole heartedly agree.
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Merle to Merle Breeding is Ok as Long as You're Ok With the Outcome??
- Thread starter Mikos_Mom
- Start date
I whole heartedly agree.
that is very likely the problem- As Hopeshelties said earlier "Most sable merles hardly look like merles."
which is also why I wanted one that looked like a merle
but it does make the cryptic merle breeding an issue.
That is correct. The problems I refer to were not with the individual dogs but the fact that because they are not so obviously merles, two sable merles could inadvertantly be mated together with the same outcome of potential double merle offspring faced by blues.
Sable merle was never an accepted colour in the UK standard, although undoubtedly sable merles did have a part to play in the formative history of the breed. I have nothing at all against the colour (actually I think it's very attractive when the merling is apparent) but I would not want it standardised for the above reason. There's just too much room for error.
k9kreationz
Forums Celebrity
I promise to own the rainbow.
Although, I still love the look of the dark sables. Maybe I should go for a tri. Ease me into the different colors. hehehe.
Yes, I know the comment was more about breeders.
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
When they are first born even the ones who later look solid have a dark patch or two. There is no reason not to know they're merlei personally haven't seen an oops I didn't know it was a merle breeding of sable merles.s.
BarbV
Forums Celebrity
I agree with your comment. A truly experienced breeder can tell, but I was looking again at the 2nd photo that HopeSheltie posted. To the uneducated, this would be a sable.
And the problem with the registration process is that you can register a pup as a sable even it its actually a sable merle, I think? I mean who at AKC or CKC is actually checking the genetics of the sire and dam and saying, "yep, that's a sable?"
Outside the show ring, where at least there are knowledgeable eyes, it just seems potentially out of control and dangerous.
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
But someone breeding should be knowledgeable about what they are doing. They should have an understanding of genetics, structure, and the breed standard they are working with. Someone who doesn't understand those things has no business breeding in the first place.
I don't think we should have to dumb it down and say lets not breed sable merles at all because the clueless pet person who just wants to make money off of fluffy and fifi because they have no clue what they are doing may not understand the color.
Let's be honest... Show breeders and people who support assa and the intent of it aren't breeding to sell to people looking to make a quick buck off the dogs they buy by breeding pet quality puppies.
I shouldn't have to not breed sables to blues because someone who has no business breeding anyway might do something foolish. It is each individuals responsibility to the breed, their dogs, and the puppies they produce to have a clear understanding of what they are doing. If they don't have that understanding, they either need to learn or just not be breeding.
Yes, they will do it anyway. They will find someone to dupe into believing they will show the dog, and breed ethically to sell them a pup, or they will find another person like them who just doesn't care or doesn't understand to sell to them. That still doesn't mean they should be breeding though. When we are playing with life, we need to have a good understanding of what we are doing with it. There is no excuse for not knowing and breeding anyway.
If you want to go down this road and say lets not breed it because certain people might not get it then let's bring up health. These same people who don't get if it's a sable or sale Merle aren't doing any health testing either. God knows what type of hip, eye, thyroid, and vwd issues they are accidentally breeding. Should we quit breeding and selling intact dogs entirely then because someone who doesn't know or doesn't care might do the wrong thing? I am certain this is going on a lot more than the accidental sable merle stuff
I don't think we should have to dumb it down and say lets not breed sable merles at all because the clueless pet person who just wants to make money off of fluffy and fifi because they have no clue what they are doing may not understand the color.
Let's be honest... Show breeders and people who support assa and the intent of it aren't breeding to sell to people looking to make a quick buck off the dogs they buy by breeding pet quality puppies.
I shouldn't have to not breed sables to blues because someone who has no business breeding anyway might do something foolish. It is each individuals responsibility to the breed, their dogs, and the puppies they produce to have a clear understanding of what they are doing. If they don't have that understanding, they either need to learn or just not be breeding.
Yes, they will do it anyway. They will find someone to dupe into believing they will show the dog, and breed ethically to sell them a pup, or they will find another person like them who just doesn't care or doesn't understand to sell to them. That still doesn't mean they should be breeding though. When we are playing with life, we need to have a good understanding of what we are doing with it. There is no excuse for not knowing and breeding anyway.
If you want to go down this road and say lets not breed it because certain people might not get it then let's bring up health. These same people who don't get if it's a sable or sale Merle aren't doing any health testing either. God knows what type of hip, eye, thyroid, and vwd issues they are accidentally breeding. Should we quit breeding and selling intact dogs entirely then because someone who doesn't know or doesn't care might do the wrong thing? I am certain this is going on a lot more than the accidental sable merle stuff
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SheltieLuver
Forums Enthusiast
A good many show breeders out there do not sell intact dogs. There are a good many "show quality" puppies altered and placed into pet homes because the breeder decided to not grow out the pup. ...and just doesn't trust anyone with an intact dog and I really don't blame them.
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
I've seen that quite a bit. I've actually done it as well. I had a beautiful show quality blue pup who I couldn't find the right show home for. Everyone wanted to buy her just to breed... not to show. So I placed her as a pet on an s/n contract. Better to let her go as a pet than sell to that type of home
This is all along the lines of what i have been trying to convince my mother in law of before we neutered Gizmo a few weeks ago. Before we did it, she kept saying that we should breed him so that we could get our money back on him. she brought it up several times. first off, he came with a limited registration, so we couldnt do it for that reason. then i kept trying to explain that a responsible breeder probably wouldnt want him because he is so small (besides the limited registration). i tried to measure him about a week ago, and if i did it right he is BARELY 13 inches. then i just wouldnt want to try to breed him because i know almost nothing about it and i wouldnt want to do it just to get stud money. i mean, he is a tri, and his dame was a tri as well, but his sire was a blue merle, and i dont know if that might be problematic in passing on the merle gene. i just dont know enough to do it responsibly.
danisgoat
Moderator
You made the right choice!
I wish others would be as responsible as you are.
Just because you have a male and female of the same breed, does NOT mean that they are suitable for breeding.
Kudos to you for standing up for what you believe in.