scared/hiding six month old male, sheltin

[Snwong]

I'm happy to know sheltin is doing better!!

When Roy b first week at home, I did close the crate for 1 hr when all my family are in the living room. Then I'll open it again incase he feels better in there. At first he will still go back to the crate when he feels tired or may be he just want some space, then after a week, he will go to his crate only when he is super tired and want to sleep. But I do give him treats to go to bed, so he loves the crate.

I bring him to the park everyday to meet other dogs, before he is really shy to dogs, now he wants to play with my neighbour's dog (I bring him there 3 times a day for 3 weeks). But he only act this way in that park, I guess he got use to that park only. My Roy is still really really shy when there is people passing by him closely on the walk, and he doesn't really like stranger right now. I'm still try to work on this. Please let me know how your trainer think too, I would like to know more advise

I think what I did to Roy B is half lure and half push. Some places where he doesn't like to go, I'll still push him to go there, but once he is calm, then I will give him treats. I"m not sure what I did is right too, but he did show some progress.

 

[Caro]

Wow, you have made great progress with walking, I wouldnt change anything.

 

[Toffee's Mom]

That sounds perfect to me snwong. When he does well, EVEN if he is uncomfortable you praise or/and treat for doing well, and to show him nothing bad happening here. If he doesn't take a treat it was too much too fast and you can step back again, and push again another time, and each situation is new to the dog... just as it used to be at the dog park, which he now likes, that's what you have accomplished in a short amount of time.

I think maybe Sheltin is a little different yet, because he was not socialized with people at all, unlike RoyB who at least learned to like 'his' people. Poor Sheltin is still learning that HIS people are the best, ever So it is hard when a dog won't even eat from you, because he doesn't trust you yet.

Sheltin, you are right of course you'll want to do what works, and I am glad he is getting so much better at the leash, that he finally walks with you guys!
I didn't mean to criticize you guys! I am amazed and so very grateful you are all doing that with the poor little dog!!
Seriously all dogs are different. I just wanted to share my opinion that there are SO much better and easier methods out there which will encourage a dog to make mistakes and learn from them, instead of a dog that is always wondering what the human wants and if they don't want anything, they don't interact at all and shut down, and then new issues pop with the type of training Caesar enforces. Mind you, he still has the best timing in the world, but his methods are of 25 years past! He's very charismatic, loves dogs, thinks he can do no wrong and has a great smile but a dog trainer, he is NOT. That is why he says he is into dog psychology... I liked when he brings in trainers like he did for the Firehouse dog, THAT was teaching positive reinforcement with the clicker how to teach Wilbur to drop and roll...

So all in all, I guess what I am saying good stuff that you are listening and getting all kinds of advice, and definitely do what will work for you guys in the LONG run, I am asking to keep an open mind to others as well who do NOT think a dog just always wants to be alpha or is manipulating situations, etc etc.
I used to actually believe in what your dog trainer mentioned, but I have completely turned a 180.. I know it may work, but a dog through compulsion training is a different dog than one being trained with positive reinforcement, the latter is visibly happier as are the owners.

 

[MaggieMae]

I really admire what you are doing and your patience and kindness to your shy Sheltie. The people in this forum are wonderful - they will continue to help in any way they can. My husband and I had a similar problem with a puppy we bought. The "backyard" breeder had not socialized him at all with people. The dogs were mostly a backyard pack.

Our "Buddy" became fear aggressive and growled at people. Since we have an older Sheltie and small grandchildren we were unable to keep him - I know your story will have a happier ending for you. We contacted Sheltie Rescue in our area and they found him a perfect home - no children and no other dogs. He has a great life going to work with his new dad every day and running in a huge fenced yard. According to our contact at Sheltie Rescue his issues still exist but are slowly subsiding and he is a beloved pet. We still miss him but have adopted a lovely older Sheltie who fits into our family perfectly.

You can't go wrong seeking advice and help here - the people are wonderful!!

 

[Megansmom]

well, antiquated or not, because of my lack of knowledge in certain areas, I'm open to all suggestions.

I have had him on another walk today, he has his leash on 24/7 right now and he's walking around the house and not cowering anywhere near as much when he sees me now. He's moving from room to room to explore, AND eat so I see a lot of improvements.
What I am having issues with is his being scared while walking.
He's still scared of other people and anything that moves or makes noise when I'm walking him. BUT he keeps right on walking forward. He may pull away from the noise, but he doesn't pull back or try to bolt. He doesn't really want to be on the leash around other people or dogs when I'm walking him, it seems. I'm guessing (assuming, hoping...) that this too will pass.
Are there any further suggestions other than keep him moving forward and keep bringing him where there's people and puppies. I mean that in addition to the continued praise, petting/stroking, thumping, lovins he's getting?


in regard to the caeser milan comment... from watching his show, I got the impression he 'had a grip' on how to train dogs.

but again, everyone has what works for them too, I guess.

So far what I'm doing, at the advice of everyone when possible, is showing progress and steps backward, so unless something isn't working I don't think I want to abandon too much...

as for his crate, because he'd messed in it the other day, I took it to clean it and forgot to put it back in his corner. He looked for it but didn't cower in the corner. he went by the wall where it was. went from room to room throughout the morning, but isn't trying to push himself in every nook or cranny anymore.
I know his crate is intended to be a safe haven for him, but I think (maybe incorrectly) that he's warming up enough to find comfort anywhere in the house now. He even entered our bedroom and slept at the foot of the bed, on the floor for part of the evening. when I looked at him he perked hi head up then when back to sleep instead of trying to go somewhere else.

I don't know the EXACT methods or PERFECT training methods or preferred methods, but I'm not falling backwards with Sheltin and I don't think I'm damaging him mentally/emotionally by how I'm handling things with him either.

and he sure is NOT the super frightened cowering sheltin that entered our home almost three weeks ago.
I am amazed and pleased with the progress in only a week

and I'm certainly not going to ignore any constructive criticism.

thanks again for all the support and advice. It's helping myself and barbi immensely with sheltin!!

I may be the only here on the forum who thinks this way, but IMHO, Cesar Milan does a great job with many, many pets. The shows of him I have watched have been where the owners are just at their witts end, dogs fighting each other, they won't behave or whatever. So it seems that by the time Cesar has to be called, the owner is beyond the point of complete positive training. They need soemone to come in to there home and help them gain control.

I'm sure this is not popular here, but Sheltin, I think if it works, do it!

 

[Snwong]

I'm a big fan of ceasar millan~~ Although his priciple theory is about "alpha" dog, he deal with different cases with different approach. Like Toffee's Mom example of firehous dog, he use clicker training for him. And he deal with some timid dogs with patience and encouragement. I guess most of his epidsode is about aggressive/ dominant dogs, so that's why most people think the only way to deal with dogs is to be alpha.

I am happy that Sheltin is doing better with his trainer. I guess sometimes it's just trail and error with our dogs and see which way is better for them. I still discipline my shy Roy b at home when he did something wrong, I think it is more healthy this way. I'm not 100% sure I'm doing the right things too, that's why I keep log on to shelties nation and gather as much info as I can, and pick the methods i feel comfortable with, I'm still learning and please keep us update

 

[Megansmom]

I'm a big fan of ceasar millan~~ Although his priciple theory is about "alpha" dog, he deal with different cases with different approach. Like Toffee's Mom example of firehous dog, he use clicker training for him. And he deal with some timid dogs with patience and encouragement. I guess most of his epidsode is about aggressive/ dominant dogs, so that's why most people think the only way to deal with dogs is to be alpha.

I am happy that Sheltin is doing better with his trainer. I guess sometimes it's just trail and error with our dogs and see which way is better for them. I still discipline my shy Roy b at home when he did something wrong, I think it is more healthy this way. I'm not 100% sure I'm doing the right things too, that's why I keep log on to shelties nation and gather as much info as I can, and pick the methods i feel comfortable with, I'm still learning and please keep us update

Don't feel bad, I am still learning as well and I have had Megan since she was 8 weeks old and she's now 8 1/2 momths old . I think the two of us are learning together what does and doesn't work..

 

[sheltin]

Happier and more comfortable Sheltin! yay!

Sheltin still enjoys the security of a corner against a wall or underneath something he can fit under BUT and a huge improved BUT... he's walking from room to room freely, playing with Rupert our year old cat, and walks by me and lets me walk by him without running away every time even though his leash is not in my hands or tied to my belt, he's not bolting every time anymore.
When I walk by him I can slowly crouch and he will crouch very little but let me pet him, thump his side, and even 'rough house play' i.e. rub his sides and head and tummy without trying to run off.
He's warming up.
I wish I'd not waited two weeks to get going, but I too was fearful of negative impacts on this guy at first. But I realized that 'grabbing the bull by the horns' so to speak or grabbing sheltins leash and reinforcing 'here' and gently puling him towards me worked wonders in a hurry. Certainly a lot faster than I'd imagined based on his initial fear.
But he's not as scared of a pup as I thought. I reinforced the scared/hiding/back away behavior by letting him stay in his kennel more or less for the first two weeks... bad me, but live and learn....

Sheltin is still reluctant at times to walk forward right away and won't come to me when I say 'here' unless I nudge his leash towards me while restating 'here'. But once i pull forward he will come up to me. I'm super pleased at this point.
On walks, he only puls to a side when he hears a bark or loud noise, but he doesn't try to buck or pull off his harness anymore!!

He's sniffing treats or food I hold in my hand but as of now he still won't take them from my hand. more patience and time here, but positives none the less...

He's also still very weary/cautious of anyone else who approaches him, seems to not like females as much?? but not to worry, he's warming up.
Also wil approach other dogs, but if they move towards him to play, he gets on the defense and did show teeth and nip towards another dog. Not an attack, I don't think??? but a defense maybe... but I just walked him away from the situation... He saw another older dog who sniffed at Sheltin, and sheltin didn't act negatively at all yesterday while at Petco, so I'm guessing he's calming more and more each time he's out too...

Seems like he took a HUGE leap forward and not just puppy steps in this past week for a lot of the seemingly anxiety issues he's (we're) battling.

He enjoys his baths, well doesn't scream, fight or try to hop out. He'll even lay down in the tub of warm water. This helps me a lot because he's one of those 'poop sticks to his fur a lot' pups yuck! lol

doesn't mind me grooming him either.

enjoys his outside time and is more reluctant and fights more about coming back in after a walk... but will go up the stairs with little convincing.

a little shy about me petting him or trying to inspire playtime, but that's coming along too!!

still, mostly, using puppy pads when I don't get him out right away or because I'm not home... my work schedule is still confusing to him and his potty times...


He lets barbi walk him in the house too, but still pulls away more with her. But I do spend a lot more time in a day with him on weekends due to her work schedule... That'll fall into place too I'm guessing based on how quickly he's coming along.
I guess that maybe he wasn't as scared of pup as I initially though but I created a safehaven for him and increased his timidness by not encouraging him to walk with me sooner.... can't take back the damage I did, but move forward and fix what I did...

I think a combination of old school and new school tricks are working wonders with this guy....
and I'll reiterate, I won't 'fix what ain't broken' if somethings working I'm not going to abandoned the pluses but would rethink anything that seems to be negative or detrimental to forward steps...

might make training classes challenging for his trainer to be when I get him to classes in June because of the mixed methods I'm using... time will tell.

I can't thank everyone enough who's helping along the way!
Sheltin is become a well adjusted pet!!
I'm pretty sure he thanks you all too

steve, barbi, sheltin, and rupert

oh: addendum.... on his walk yesterday, I stopped by a fire hydrant so he could sniff and he laid next to it to rest... guess he's still a little confused LOL as soon as I get pics off my phone I will post more of this cute little bugger!
thanks again,
steve

 

[Chris]

It sounds as if Sheltin has turned the corner toward Sheltie happiness and is strolling down that road with you all!

 

[sheltin]

to Toffee's Mom

I am not disregarding or abandoning anyone's ideas...

I am learning just like Sheltin is. Because I don't know right from wrong as far as training methods go, I have an idea of what's not right.

I will try any training steps and suggestions a couple of times before accepting or abandoning ideas.

I realized quickly that this poor fella isn't trying to 'alpha dog' me at all. He doesn't really have any (DIDn'T have any) idea what the heck I'm telling him at first and his pulling away is 'scaredy pup' be it from lack of people socialization or be it from physical/emotional abuse. Though to me, not socializing your pet is pretty much the same as emotional abuse anyway or definitely causes the same darned reaction when a person is finally trying to work with a pup who's basically been abandoned or 'let to be alone' more or less.

One thing I do wonder with shows like Caeser Milan's is, how many pups has he worked with that his methods just didn't work that didn't make the cut to be aired. I'd like to see or hear about his failures too. He's not going to convince me that he is 100% foolproof. noone is.

another nice day... time for Sheltin to get outside !!