Veterinary Position on Debarking

T

The Quahog

Forums Enthusiast
I had been asked a couple of weeks ago in a PM by a Forum member from my state about my position on debarking.
I was curious as to why, but now can guess, as I see that a neighboring town has proposed an ordinance that bans feline and canine devocalization. (Feline??)
The veterinary association was asked for input, and has asked its membership for input.
However, considering previous discussions on the topic I found the preliminary 'draft position' by the association very interesting, so thought I would take the liberty of posting it here for comment-

=Canine devocalization should only be performed by a qualified, licensed veterinarian as a final alternative to euthanasia after all medical and behavioral modification efforts have been exhausted and placement of the pet in a more suitable environment is not possible.The veterinarian has an obligation to educate clients on alternatives to the procedure as well as potential complications.

The **VMA Board believes that the majority of veterinarians in ** discourage and likely oppose devocalization but also believes that ultimately the decision needs to be made within the doctor-client-patient relationship.'==

A well stated if somewhat controversial position. - Dr. Mac
 
Wow, controversial topic!

Given the choice between euthanasia and debarking, then definitely debark.

But there are those people whose quality of life is impacted by over-barking (ie driving them batty) even if the city ordinanances don't have them mandated to quiet things down.

What do to about that? My first preference is training. As Caesar says, he rehabiltates dogs, he trains people.

Shelties are barkers. Yes. Can they be controlled. Yes. What's the magic formula? I dunno. But I do believe that it is about training ourselves first, and then the dogs.

I think I would exhaust every book on the subject before I put my pups through surgery if I did not have to. But if I had to, I would.
 
What is a "medical behavioral modification effort"? Keeping the dog sedated all the time?

I lump debarking in with all convenience surgeries, including spaying and neutering. If you outlaw debarking, then altering needs to go to, except to save the life of the dog. If you can't be bothered to keep your dog from having sex, you don't need a dog, right?

Thankfully, we have the City of Baltimore behind us here in Maryland. They LIKE their residents having all the possible options to keep neighborhoods happy. They tried to outlaw it, and it never made it out of committee.
 
Yea its kinda a shame that they are taking away pet owners rights and leaving it up to the govt to decide what you can and cant do with your dog...but I guess the majority of vets seem to be ok with this fact...Pretty sad, I mean why go to vet school if you cant practice on your own decision making accord...

Although even if it does pass, ive had them already change the wording so the bill is pretty much useless as it stands written right now, it can still be performed for any reason under the sun:wink2:

And the guy whos trying to get it passed is pretty clueless and is trying to ride off MA's bill...want a good hearty laugh read the reasoning he states its being done..I about fell out of my chair laughing (especially the dog show reason)!! Heres the article for giggles http://www.warwickonline.com/view/full_story/10692282/article-Law-bans-leaving-pets-in-cars?
 
Here the state of Victoria has not only banned debarking but has now banned dogs that are debarked (or have their tails docked) from attending in any comptitions and public dog activities (dog sports, confirmation, obedience trialing, charity dog walks). The sad thing is debarking is uncommon anyway so you really only see people actively involved in the dog community doing it (ie they have the contacts so know where to go) or people who are really desperate and have an understanding vet. i would think these are the same people who really do care about the welfare of their dogs. Oh and guess which State has the highest rate of dogs being dumped per capita - due to barking! That as the State I was living in when my Sheltie, Kimba, was poisoned due to barking.

That article is interesting, and scary if that is the type of uninformed information that is underpinning the Bill. And banning dogs from being left in cars? When its warm maybe, but boy I would be bankrupted with a law like that. The irony being i have to take my dogs in my car to stop them barking at home when I am not there. Catch-22 really.

Grrr:mad:, it makes me really angry.
 
*Caro said:
Here the state of Victoria has not only banned debarking but has now banned dogs that are debarked (or have their tails docked) from attending in any comptitions and public dog activities (dog sports, confirmation, obedience trialing, charity dog walks). The sad thing is debarking is uncommon anyway so you really only see people actively involved in the dog community doing it (ie they have the contacts so know where to go) or people who are really desperate and have an understanding vet. i would think these are the same people who really do care about the welfare of their dogs. Oh and guess which State has the highest rate of dogs being dumped per capita - due to barking! That as the State I was living in when my Sheltie, Kimba, was poisoned due to barking.

That article is interesting, and scary if that is the type of uninformed information that is underpinning the Bill. And banning dogs from being left in cars? When its warm maybe, but boy I would be bankrupted with a law like that. The irony being i have to take my dogs in my car to stop them barking at home when I am not there. Catch-22 really.

Grrr:mad:, it makes me really angry.
Click to expand...


You know I brought up the same thing to the council, I asked them how many dogs do they know that have been debarked? 8 out of the 9 (because the 9th who introduced the bill refused to come answer any questions) said they do not know of one...yup thats right no knowledge what so ever but they are passing this laws. The car bill is utterly ridicioulous...I mean come on its -13c outside right now and my dogs are chose to sleep outside on the porch instead of the house...obviously if I had a chi or another small dog they couldnt be out in this weather but mine prefer below zero to say 70 degrees....
 
yeah, it is scary. I do not want govt to decide what I do with my dog and if I were to have a breeder living next to me with 11 dogs, I'll thank her very much for keeping them quiet ... by whatever means work and we all know that you can keep quiet one or two but more than that... Caesar or no Caesar they are going to bark:yes:
And my dogs travel with me EVERYWHERE in the car, weather permitting, they get to walk new places, smell new things and have a comfort of car/ toys/ beds/ chewies in between...
 
ClantyreSheltie said:
What is a "medical behavioral modification effort"? Keeping the dog sedated all the time?

I lump debarking in with all convenience surgeries, including spaying and neutering. If you outlaw debarking, then altering needs to go to, except to save the life of the dog. If you can't be bothered to keep your dog from having sex, you don't need a dog, right?

Thankfully, we have the City of Baltimore behind us here in Maryland. They LIKE their residents having all the possible options to keep neighborhoods happy. They tried to outlaw it, and it never made it out of committee.
Click to expand...

Exactly.


I did, of course, get my dog spayed, but it wasn't b/c I couldn't have kept her from having sex. I just don't see the need in having those parts if they are never going to get used. Everyone has the personal choice of what they want to alter in their animal to a certain extent, of course.

If it makes your life easier, which in return makes you dog's life easier, then I don't see anything wrong with it. I've read a lot about it and most things I've read say it's less severe surgery than spaying. Hadley has the most annoying bark in the world, and she loves to bark when she's happy and excited, it's just part of who she is. I hate that it drives me insane and makes me want to yell at her, occasionally doing so, when she's just trying to express how happy she is. The people I gave one of my puppies to have several debarked dogs and you'd never know until they barked and then it just sounds horse. I'm certainly considering it. It's no different than declawing my cat which I would do again if I got another cat.
 
Indy was 10 months old when I got him and supposedly "debarked". I can't imagine what he would sound like if he wasn't! So any notion that a dog that is debarked cannot give a warning bark before biting someone is crazy.

Debarking dogs does not take away the behaviour. They will still bark....they just won't annoy the hell out of everyone withing 100 metres of the dog.

I can almost understand the "leaving dogs in the car" ordinance. There are some pretty stupid people out there (you'all saw the post about mailing a puppy?) But these people really are in the minority. 99.9% of dog owners know when its safe to leave a dog in the car and for how long - whether its hot or cold outside.

I do believe though that authorities need to have the ability to act if they think a dog is at risk. Here, if a dog is locked in a closed car, and its 30C outside, they don't have to find the owner. They just smash open the windows. Then they charge the owner for the cost and sometimes with negligence. Most of these cases get publicized and it educates other owners.

A law is just crazy.
 
My Chloe has a bark that goes right up my spine. If we lived close to other people, I am sure we would get complaints. She scares the crap out of Randi's Bailey with her annoying constant yip yip yip. Bailey looks at her like she is nuts.

It is a happy yip, but annoying nonetheless. Sometimes when I am going to the barn, I just keep thinking...please just shut up already. But I have a pretty even temper and never find myself yelling at her for it. If it came to a point where I was expressing my anger towards her for it.....I would have her debarked, or whatever the procedure is that makes it not as high pitched. I would not have a problem at all. I would choose that, over getting Chloe upset over it. It is her instinct to bark, and I do believe that making her stop (or training her out of it) would be worse for her. She would be stressed out trying to control herself all the time. Hey...I want to get my husband's throat thingy snipped so I can sleep at night without him snoring :lol: So, if I want to do it to him, I would definitely do something to my dog.

My question to the people wanting to pass this law. Why don't they start with something such as tail and/or ear docking. I would think they would be cosmetic surgeries with no apparent reasons other than looks. If you want to start meddling, why not start with that.
 
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