marymrumfelt
Forums Enthusiast
Exactly! Things that serve no purpose at all and are purely cosmetic should be the first things to go. Great reply.
Last edited by a moderator:
Veterinary Position on Debarking
- Thread starter The Quahog
- Start date
Exactly! Things that serve no purpose at all and are purely cosmetic should be the first things to go. Great reply.
danisgoat
Moderator
Thanks....it just does not make sense to me.
Really.
Having a sheltie barking is not a training issue. This is what they do. They were bred to do it. Some shelties have such a strong instinct that to "break" them of that habit, would do just that, break them.
I would think that having a bark softening surgery on them would be so much better for the dog. It would make them happier.
missjenneygirl
Forums Enthusiast
"placement of the pet in a more suitable environment is not possible."
I find this part especially ridiculous. It assumes that all dogs bark because of unhappiness, or because their environment is unsuitable. Many dogs bark because they are happy, and bark when playing.
Here, 8 adult dogs run merrily within two acres fenced. They bark at each other, squirrels, and anything else.
There is not a more suitable environment for 8 shelties. They are all de-barked and very happy. I suppose if someone complained about their barking, I would suggest to them, that THEY find a more suitable environment!
I find this part especially ridiculous. It assumes that all dogs bark because of unhappiness, or because their environment is unsuitable. Many dogs bark because they are happy, and bark when playing.
Here, 8 adult dogs run merrily within two acres fenced. They bark at each other, squirrels, and anything else.
There is not a more suitable environment for 8 shelties. They are all de-barked and very happy. I suppose if someone complained about their barking, I would suggest to them, that THEY find a more suitable environment!
Caro
Moderator
Absolutely. I am sure our lives would be so much better if I wasnt constantly telling Deska to be quiet, putting on bark collars, locking him inside and worrying if I am going to be kicked out of my home. Deska is a happy barker, so what does it do, everytime he is happy for me tell him off (or get buzzed by the collar). If he could bark quieter it wouldnt be a problem. I was thinking of getting his voice softened when his joint disease was under control, but then the new laws were passed so I couldnt.
Last edited:
Ann
Moderator
Our Checkers came to us with a softened bark, and she has the most delightful voice we've ever heard. We liked it so much that I had Barkley done since his incessant barking whenever I'm on the phone, or at the stove, or opening a cabinet door or the million other triggers he has, was making us all crazy.
He still barks all the time at everything, but a bit (only a bit) more quietly and without the high-pitched, ear splitting tone he used to have. I would do it again in a heartbeat even if I had to go out of state to have it done. I tried the training route first, using every possible method I found, and it didn't work. As others have said, barking is their natural behavior and this is a good compromise for everyone.
He still barks all the time at everything, but a bit (only a bit) more quietly and without the high-pitched, ear splitting tone he used to have. I would do it again in a heartbeat even if I had to go out of state to have it done. I tried the training route first, using every possible method I found, and it didn't work. As others have said, barking is their natural behavior and this is a good compromise for everyone.
sable
Forums Enthusiast
For me, barking is a good thing to let me know someone is approaching the door.
It really is a matter of choice.
My two are bad about barking at squirrels, and we have one that loves to play with the shelties catch me if you can. This squirrel is soooo cute, loves to play. I do have them whistle broke to come in when they get a bit crazy with the barking. Easier to use the whistle then keep calling for them to shut it off.
Mom we are dogs, we bark. Yep and enough is enough. When I use that whistle they know its enough.
It really is a matter of choice.
My two are bad about barking at squirrels, and we have one that loves to play with the shelties catch me if you can. This squirrel is soooo cute, loves to play. I do have them whistle broke to come in when they get a bit crazy with the barking. Easier to use the whistle then keep calling for them to shut it off.
Mom we are dogs, we bark. Yep and enough is enough. When I use that whistle they know its enough.
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
And that is EXACTLY the reason that we fight dock/crop laws tooth and nail. Because we know that once it starts, they can justify more and more and more. And ignorant people will vote for and pass them.
Ear cropping is mostly cosmetic, but ask working terrier or hound owners if tail docking is cosmetic. The answer is no. Would you rather dock at 3 days, or wait for a catastrophic injury in a tunnel or in the field, and amputate at 3 years, after letting the dog suffer through a bloody, painful mess for a day?
The Quahog
Forums Enthusiast
To quote Capn Jack Sparrow- 'Well, that was...... interesting.'
As stated before, I confess that I am surprised at the vehemence shown here by those supporting devocalization. This is hardly because I hold some radical view on the matter. If I were to ask the next 50 clients who walk in my door what they thought of 'altering' (trying not to use 'leading' language) the vocal cords to 'soften' a dog's bark, I would guess with reasonable confidence that 48 would be appalled at the idea. And I have a feeling that a lot of members of this forum feel the same way.
And, of course, if veterinarians supported the procedure it would be seen by many as an inhumane 'anything for a buck' attitude. I suppose they deserve a little credit for 'sending money out the door' by saying no.
Ear cropping and tail docking are 'another problem for another time.'
Incidentally, the town of Warwick Rhode Island has long been a hotbed of 'animal care' issues such as mandatory spay neuter laws and many others, because it has some fairly radical advocates (withholding judgement on whether this is right or wrong) such as Mr. Tabella. (This is also why RI is 'the guardian state.') - Dr. Mac
As stated before, I confess that I am surprised at the vehemence shown here by those supporting devocalization. This is hardly because I hold some radical view on the matter. If I were to ask the next 50 clients who walk in my door what they thought of 'altering' (trying not to use 'leading' language) the vocal cords to 'soften' a dog's bark, I would guess with reasonable confidence that 48 would be appalled at the idea. And I have a feeling that a lot of members of this forum feel the same way.
And, of course, if veterinarians supported the procedure it would be seen by many as an inhumane 'anything for a buck' attitude. I suppose they deserve a little credit for 'sending money out the door' by saying no.
Ear cropping and tail docking are 'another problem for another time.'
Incidentally, the town of Warwick Rhode Island has long been a hotbed of 'animal care' issues such as mandatory spay neuter laws and many others, because it has some fairly radical advocates (withholding judgement on whether this is right or wrong) such as Mr. Tabella. (This is also why RI is 'the guardian state.') - Dr. Mac
Ann
Moderator
Your points are excellent, as always, Dr. Mac. Many people would see a veterinary position on debarking as "in it for the buck." And most vets I know don't do the procedure, for whatever reason.
I must admit that I was one of those people who was horrified by the concept of surgically altering a dog's voice until I had firsthand experience of what it is, and what it does. When I realized that they aren't rendered mute, and are perfectly comfortable with their new voices -- indeed, don't even seem to notice the difference -- my opinion changed.
I think that's the problem with the general populace. We judge something before we have all the facts. Debarking has been one of the third rails of dogdom for a very long time. Perhaps if the proponents got the word out there as much as the detractors have, people might become more educated and realistic about the process.
I must admit that I was one of those people who was horrified by the concept of surgically altering a dog's voice until I had firsthand experience of what it is, and what it does. When I realized that they aren't rendered mute, and are perfectly comfortable with their new voices -- indeed, don't even seem to notice the difference -- my opinion changed.
I think that's the problem with the general populace. We judge something before we have all the facts. Debarking has been one of the third rails of dogdom for a very long time. Perhaps if the proponents got the word out there as much as the detractors have, people might become more educated and realistic about the process.
danisgoat
Moderator
LOL...you are talking to an Irish Setter person with setters that have lots and lots of field degrees. Let's just say we never had a tail injury, and don't know of anyone who has. It's cosmetic.