Breeding Questions

S

Smiling Sunny

Forums Regular
Hello,

I have some questions and I want to start educating myself early about breeding. I really want to breed my dog Sunny and I want to make sure I know all the facts.

First question:
I have heard that you should wait until your dog is two years old until you breed her. Is this true?

Second question:
Are there any books that you would recommend that educate well about whelping and breeding shelties?

Third question:
Do you believe it is a good idea to run background checks on possible puppy buyers? I am worried about puppy millers and animal cruelty as well.

Fourth question:
Where is a good manual on dog training? Which manual would you recommend? I hope to become a registered dog trainer through http://www.ptcny.com/ so that I could also train shelties and other dogs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Amanda and Sunny:winkgrin:
 
The real question you need to be asking yourself is why you want to breed your dog... and why you think your dog in particular is breeding-quality.

How well does she conform to the written breed Standard? Has she competed in conformation, agility, obedience, or herding? What has she done that sets her apart as breeding-quality? Have you sought the help of other breeders in evaluating her quality? Have you screened her for the various genetic issues that occur in the breed (vWD, hip dysplasia, eye problems through CERF, MDR)?

There are many Shelties in rescue who need homes... and even breeding-quality dogs produce some pet-quality puppies. Unless your dog is of outstanding quality, and has something to contribute genetically to the Sheltie breed as a whole, I would advise that you not breed her.

I am also concerned that you are asking very, very basic questions about the breed, and about dogs in general. You're starting at exactly the right place, but in my opinion (and I think many would agree), you need to be very well-educated about dogs and about the breed itself before you even consider breeding. The rule of thumb that I've heard is that a person should spend at least five years seriously competing with their dog in their chosen venue(s) before they begin to plan a litter.

At the end of the day, you're going to make the choices that you make. But these are my two cents, having spent my life in the world of showing and breeding Shelties in a responsible way, and for the betterment of the breed.
 
I thank you for your advice and I am glad to see your concern. I do plan to learn more about the breed, that is why I joined this site. I have been reading some books and I already have help from the breeder I got my Sunny from. I just wanted to double check information with more professional breeders like all of you.

I may sound ignorant, but I have always been taught to ask many questions. That is how we all learn.
I am only 21, so I have to start somewhere. I am sure that you asked the same questions as I did when you first started.

I am also a huge advocate for spaying and neutering pets, especially if you cannot handle puppies or give them good homes to go to.
I made sure that I have more than enough people I know who want a puppy before they even exist. I love animals and I have helped many find good homes in the area that I live in. I promise I am not completely oblivious.

Still, I feel that I want to have Sunny's wonderful characteristics passed down. She has been tested for genetic defects and her genealogy suggests very good prospects for breeding.

I haven't quite clocked her yet when she runs, but my vet (who also trains agility) suggested that I breed her. Since she is only 6 months, I wanted to start getting all the information early (which is why I asked these questions).

If you would like to give me any advice on books you like and information that would actually help me, I would like to know. :)
 
I am happy to give you information that I think will help; I did in my first post. Honest evaluation of a dog's virtues and faults are the foundation of selective breeding.

Carmen Battaglia's Breeding Better Dogs is excellent, and gives a good shorthand method for making comparisons and recording evaluations of dogs and pedigrees.

Sheltie Talk, which is out of print and currently being rolled out in a new two-volume edition, is an excellent resource on the breed, as well as on practical management and whelping.

More than anything, your greatest resource will be your mentor(s). This is the person who will help you with evaluating your dog, choosing a stud, and getting through breeding and whelping and beyond. This is the person you'll be calling at three in the morning when you have a stuck puppy, or when your whole litter is going downhill and you need to start tube-feeding and you're terrified that you're going to do it wrong and accidentally kill them because you're so incredibly exhausted from trying to help them nurse. (Better yet, they'll be on the floor next to the whelping box with you.)

Your girl is six months old. Eighteen months is about the lower edge for breeding a bitch (though AKC will accept registration of litters whelped at eight months). You will have her final OFA hip results at two years, but PennHip can be done earlier. So you have, at the very least, a year to just get to know your dog and the breed and what she has to contribute to it before you whelp your litter.

To your third question, do you mean a criminal background check? That seems a bit extreme. Careful screening and time spent getting to know a person or a family before the puppies are even born, followed by check-ins throughout the life of the dog, is generally sufficient.

To your fourth question, there is no manual that I could recommend more highly than a good mentor and serious time spent gaining experience. However, other people here are very seriously focused on training and agility, and so this might be a question better put to those areas of the forums.

Here's a great blog post about becoming a dog trainer - it's a little snarky, but it's written by a very respected SAR-dog handler, and I think there's a lot of truth in it.

I really do appreciate that you are starting out by asking lots of questions. Please understand that I am coming from a background of being raised in a certain environment: my mother has spent the last twenty+ years dedicated to showing and breeding Shelties. She is not a "professional breeder", as she certainly makes no money doing it. I see careful, educated selective breeding as a tool that can be used to preserve (and improve) the breeds that we know and love.
 
Thank you so much! That really helps me a lot. I am not sure if I am going to breed Sunny really soon, since I have a lot to learn. I wanted to wait a few years when both of us are ready :)
That is why I am starting early education myself. I really value your information and thanks again for helping me out!

Amanda and Sunny
 
You're welcome. Sometimes getting into dogs is like trying to become a convert - you get the door slammed in your face a few times to test your resolve. It's not personal.

I forgot, you'll want to check out breeders and Sheltie clubs in your area. The American Shetland Sheepdog Association's member clubs in Ohio are listed here. Joining a club and getting involved in the breed community is wonderful opportunity to learn and to meet potential mentors.
 
I second everything Tofu Pup said! A good mentor is worth their weight in gold!

I would also suggest trying to go to every show, and agility trial (since you are interested in agility) to see what faults/traits you are seeing and what ones can you live with and over look and what you cant. It will be very helpful in selecting a stud.

I also waited 5 years to have our first litter, and still have tons to learn. There should be no feeling of urgency in breeding.

There are 2 new books I got in the mail a few weeks ago that I havent have time to sit down and read yet, but my mom has read one and said it was excellent. They are by Myra Savant Harris if you google it, it will come up with her books as she does seminars as well.
I also suggest Canine reproduction, Another Piece of the puppy puzzle and my all time favorite is the Puppy Journal, its kind of like the what to expect when expecting book for humans but in dogs and does a day by day development..its fun to compare where your litter is to the book.
 
Smiling Sunny said:
Thank you so much! That really helps me a lot. I am not sure if I am going to breed Sunny really soon, since I have a lot to learn. I wanted to wait a few years when both of us are ready :)
That is why I am starting early education myself. I really value your information and thanks again for helping me out!

Amanda and Sunny
Click to expand...

I am looking forward to showing Shelties in my retirement years (7 years from now). Will I breed? Perhaps -- it depends on how this whole thing unfolds. But that will probably be my last decision, after I see how showing pans out. I have wonderful mentors -- my breeder Alexandra Luhrs-Briggs; Tofu Pup and her mom Miss Jenny Girl, and others who have been taking the time to answer my questions. Throughout these preparatory years, I am working on grooming, studying about the breed, going to shows -- everything I can do to prepare myself. If I get bored (HA!), then I will have learned something then, too -- what I don't want to do!

The ultimate question is: Why Breed? Are you planning to show, do obedience, do agility? I know of a wonderful breeder (now retired), who bred Shelties for obedience. His dogs were at the top of the rankings for years, and people who wanted a Sheltie for obedience or agility went to him first. Also, I believe there's nothing wrong for breeding healthy, correct Shelties for pets -- but you have to consider the issue of placement. There are unethical people who will buy to mill puppies. And you could lose your wonderful Sunny -- whelping isn't without risk. It's a huge decision, and I applaud your plan to question, study and prepare. :yes:
 
Lightplum said:
I also waited 5 years to have our first litter, and still have tons to learn. There should be no feeling of urgency in breeding.
Click to expand...

Five years? Man am I slow. Took me ten years to get to where I thought I understood enough to have a litter. Ten years, lots of seminars, lots of questions, and some obedience and agility titles before I was brave enough. And I still had two long-time breeders and a registered nurse with me for the delivery. This litter I pared it down to my mom, my mentor, and a friend who was sitting with me in case nobody else got there in time (which they didn't! my girl spit those suckers out every 18-20 minutes:eek2:) I had two puppies before the cavalry showed up. : )
 
Chris said:
I am looking forward to showing Shelties in my retirement years (7 years from now).
Click to expand...

A little off topic, but this one of my future goals, too. :biggrin2: I don't think I will wait for retirement though, as I am 27. :lol: It would be at least 15 + years though, after Smudge and Fluffy are gone. That's why I am taking my time now to do obedience and follow Jennifer around at shows that are close. I would not breed though - only show.

So for now my two lovely dogs are my practice. Grooming, obedience, ect. Grooming a sheltie for showing is a lot of hard work (well, maybe it only seems that way to me because it was the first time I had seen one prepped for a show!).

But, yes. I was only watching the show, and it was so. much. fun. !!!!!


I would also love to just handle dogs for a show. I think that would be fun, too. :yes: There were several people at the show who handled several people's dogs.
 
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