The Yellow Dog Project

[labgirl]

I think Sophie that your post reflects just how a responsible owner should behave. You are the ideal lab owner because you know how Cadbury likes to behave, you control him on a line but let him play when you know it is a safe situation. I would have no problem at all meeting you and Cadbury on a walk

Thank you Julia, I try but I know I am not perfect and I occasionally make mistakes. Fortunately Cadbury is a gentle soul. I sometimes get cross with other lab owners for the way they let their dogs behave. I've had labs crash into Cadbury and bounce all over him, he gets cross because he knows that is bad manners, then the other lab owners think he is the weird one!

Personally, as long as a dog is not dangerous and can be recalled I think it is good for them to have time off lead in safe areas. That might be a fenced field for instance, or a quiet beach. All life is a risk, our dogs could slip out a door or gate for instance. Both mine have suffered their worst attacks when on lead and couldn't get away. I spend a lot of time on off lead training just so I can let my boys have some freedom.

 

[seashel]

Personally, as long as a dog is not dangerous and can be recalled I think it is good for them to have time off lead in safe areas. That might be a fenced field for instance, or a quiet beach. All life is a risk, our dogs could slip out a door or gate for instance. Both mine have suffered their worst attacks when on lead and couldn't get away. I spend a lot of time on off lead training just so I can let my boys have some freedom.

I was going to post something along just these lines last night but nodded off at the PC!

I think it should be the owner's desicion whether to allow their dogs off lead in areas where there are no restrictions, but in doing so they have to take responsibility for what the dog might do. If they are unprepared to watch it and pick up after it, or do not have a good degree of control then letting the dog off shows complete disregard for others in the area. It is a lifestyle choice to own a dog and that comes with a duty to ensure it isn't a nuisance to other people. No matter where you go with dogs there is a risk of something happening as Sophie says. I've seen more dogs attacked at shows than anywhere else and this is a place you would expect to be safe.

The desicion to let the dog off the lead is about assessing the level of risk. If the risk is percieved as too high then the responsible action is to of course keep the dog on it's lead and I have every respect for those who will not walk their dogs off lead for whatever reason (poor recall, fear of attack etc) I will only let mine off in areas where I feel the chances of an incident are very low. But if something does happen due to someone else's thoughtlessness then I will certainly take them to task over it - as I would expect other people would if my dogs were causing a problem. Why should it be inevitable that our dogs are going to be harassed if we take them out? There is always a chance of being involved in a car accident but I don't think it is seen as inevitable, even though there are probably as many bad drivers as bad owners!

In an ideal world there would be more restrictions for people whose dogs are not under a good level of control and fewer for people who are responsible owners that do not let their dogs be a nuisance to others but whether this will ever come to pass remains to be seen!

 

[JacqueZ]

I should contact my park and see if they would be willing to put up posters with that information. I've reposted it on Facebook a few times, but no one st my park does it.

What I'd really love to see is a companion color for people like me who are constantly trying to socialize, that way I don't have to ask everyone we pass if they are okay with our dogs meeting. I always worry that I've annoyed the owner who has to say no, or made them feel bad.

Our park has leash rules, but we are back in the woods, and Honey knows she's not allowed to approach other dogs if I haven't okay'd it (the only good part of training at an apartment was the ease of enforcing this behavior), so I'll let her walk loose leashed on the parts where I have good visibility. Given the fact that my call will stop her from chasing a deer I trust my control in this situation, and having a leash attached still means if anything were to happen I could easily regain control. If another dog approaches I pick up the leash before we or the other dog gets close, whether that dog is loose or not. That being said there are numerous times we have encountered other dogs running up without the owner in sight, and while I don't mind (they've all been friendly) I know reactive dogs walk there too, and that situation is not safe for either dog, or the reactive dogs owner, who is going to end up in the middle of two fighting dogs.

plus, since our on lead walking is not exactly trained in full, while off leash she stays right by my side, off leash is a much more enjoyable walk. (We're working to remedy on lead performance to match loose leash)


Also, an important note, Honey's lead is always in my hand when children are approaching, I view dogs that have no problem running up to children as just as irresponsible a situation as dogs running up to other dogs. (And the reverse, off leash children running up to on lead dogs with no concern for the dogs temperament!)

 

[HopeShelties]

Whatever Tabitha.
I am perfectly competent of UNDERSTANDING the conversation. However, I still do not agree with it. I'm sorry if you think it is okay to put other dogs at risk because you want your dogs to experience off leash time. DO THAT AT HOME. DON'T put mine and others at RISK.
The problem I have with off leash dogs is you take MY choice away in whether ****I**** want the risk of whether someones dogs recalls or not. I do not know when walking if fluffy the big dog has a recall or not. Nor do I care if idiot pet owner thinks their dog is friendly or 'just wants to play'. So long as your choices can affect me, or others who don't want your dogs off leash, DON'T let them off leash in public. People have a right to expect dogs NOT to approach them and their dogs.
Until the day comes when everyone is a good dog owner, and all dogs can be expected to behave, no dog needs to be in public off leash. Here is the US, the ONLY place I know of that allows off leash dogs is in an actual dog park. Otherwise, there are LAWS stating dogs MUST be on leash in public.

 

[JLSOhio51]

... I do not know when walking if fluffy the big dog has a recall or not. Nor do I care if ... pet owner thinks their dog is friendly or 'just wants to play'...

I agree that I should have the right to expect not to be approached by unleashed animals wherever I find myself (absent a posted no leash area or out in the middle of nowhere), but I also feel that wherever I find myself, I have the responsibility to take the necessary step to protect my companion whatever the circumstances.

...Until the day comes when everyone is a good dog owner, and all dogs can be expected to behave, no dog needs to be in public off leash...

The problem I have here is: ask 50 people what constitutes "good dog ownership" and you will get 50 different answers.

Here is the US, the ONLY place I know of that allows off leash dogs is in an actual dog park. Otherwise, there are LAWS stating dogs MUST be on leash in public.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending upon your point of view), this simply is not true. If the info on the "Animal Legal & Historical Center" website is correct, 29 of the 50 U.S. states (plus Washington D.C) are states that either do not require dogs to be on a leash nor do they prohibit dogs running at large. What is supposedly "universally excepted" actually is not "universally excepted".

 

[Calliesmom]

off leash- yes, there are lots of places where it's allowed or there are no leash laws.....

way back when I lived in FL, there was a dog beach about 15 min away from where I lived. surprisingly my basset mix liked water and swimming so we went semi-regularly. so one time, we're there, chilling on the beach towel and this mom and kids are passing by us leaving- they have a puppy so I'm watching the cute little thing. next thing I know, Danny is standing because he loves kids and puppies and then there's this guy- the dad- who says, get your dog- which I have my dog - and then that his dog doesn't like other dogs. and then his dog proceeds to get loose and attack my dog.......
I'm like- why are you here if you know your dog doesn't like other dogs and why aren't you keeping your dog under control/leashed.....
thankfully, no damage to my dog but really- the guy is lucky that there were kids around...

 

[HopeShelties]

I stand corrected then. Everywhere I have lived and traveled to while trialing has required leashes, so made the assumption, especially with the current AR endorsed laws being pushed through, that is was pretty universal in the US at this point. I do feel strongly anywhere in the US that doesn't require leashes should. Off leash dogs are an accident waiting to happen.

"way back when I lived in FL, there was a dog beach about 15 min away from where I lived. surprisingly my basset mix liked water and swimming so we went semi-regularly. so one time, we're there, chilling on the beach towel and this mom and kids are passing by us leaving- they have a puppy so I'm watching the cute little thing. next thing I know, Danny is standing because he loves kids and puppies and then there's this guy- the dad- who says, get your dog- which I have my dog - and then that his dog doesn't like other dogs. and then his dog proceeds to get loose and attack my dog.......
I'm like- why are you here if you know your dog doesn't like other dogs and why aren't you keeping your dog under control/leashed.....
thankfully, no damage to my dog but really- the guy is lucky that there were kids around..."

And there is the problem with allowing off leash. Morons who don't get that their dog has no business being off leash.

 

[labgirl]

Hopeshelties, I appreciate you have had some tough experiences, heck haven't we all encountered dogs we wished were on lead? However, there are plenty of people who behave responsibly with their dogs off lead and I see no reason why they should be criticised.

I was at the beach on Saturday with my friend. It is a popular dog walking spot and the vast majority of dogs are off lead and there are very few, if any, problems. I went with my friend and between us we had four dogs. All four were off lead about 90% of the time (excluding Cadbury who I put on when we come across people, dogs on lead, horses, etc). We walked for two hours saying hello to all the other dog walkers and beach goers.

There are few routes off the beach up the cliffs, so even if a dog ran it couldn't get anywhere bad. We had a lovely time and met several dogs without an issue. Whenever we saw a dog that was on lead we put ours on too just in case.

In my area it is still quite rural, I technically live in a village, so it is different to an urban environment. My vicar owns a golden retriever called Poppy which attends all the church fetes off lead. She wanders from the rectory garden into the church field and mooches around without upsetting everyone. She is well-behaved and doesn't jump up or attempt to steal food. So it is normal to see her loose and no one worries. His old dog used to pop into the church from time to time on her own for a visit. I don't suggest for a moment this should be the case with all dogs, but if a dog is well-behaved then what is the problem?

One reason I like off lead exercise for my boys is it gives their hearts a good work-out when they run and uses different muscles to just walking. I can't jog, so I couldn't run with my boys to achieve this.

I agreed that when a dog is on lead it is a nuisance when a loose dog wanders over. Merlin hates dogs approaching when he is on lead, but off lead he is fine. This can be because a dog feels trapped by the lead, so they can't get away if they are scared. Most people here are pretty good about putting their dog on lead if yours is on lead. Sometimes people make mistakes, but that's life. Flexi-leads are the worst because at a distance you can't tell the dog is on a lead at all. I've made mistakes because of this before now. But Merlin has a great leave command and I am always very cautious about the dogs he meets anyway.

So, in the end I think this world is big enough to accommodate us all, whether we choose off lead or on. Sadly there will always be irresponsible people out there who allow their dogs to misbehave, but they should not tarnish those who try to be respectful of others.

 

[dblock]

Lab girl

I understand completely what you are saying, but, I highly disagree with you and all others that say that just because your dog is well behaved that the dog should be allowed to just go up to anyone be they human or canine.

Regardless of what the situation is A DOG, is just that A DOG. It is a being that HAS TEETH

The only way a dog has to respond to anyone, or any situation that for what ever reason startles him (legitimately or not) is to bite. As HOPES and I have said, not one dog owner has the right to take away my right of personal safety in a public area because they believe their dog to behave a react appropriately. No dog as well as no human very rarely if ever does.

It completely infuriates me, when I see people(whether they have a dog w/them or not) crossing the street because they see a dog owner walking their dog off a leash on a city sidewalk. That is absolutely ridiculous. It is faulty and selfish thinking on the part of dog owners. No, pedestrian, should have to put up with this kind of crap. It is selfish behavior on the part of dog owners. Today alone, I've had to cross the street three times. Luckily, I was able to do so, before our paths intersected. I do this otherwise what I call the "stupid conversation" takes place. The other dog owner ask "is your dog friendly" to which I respond "There is a leash law" and then I get called all sorts of names why? because I stand up for my rights not be approached by people who feel they have every right to force themselves on unsuspecting people like me and who don't feel that I have the right to enjoy the freedom to come and go like they do.

And the argument that risk and accidents happen all the time because that's a part of life, just doesn't belong in this discussion. In fact, it makes me quite livid. An accident is something that is unforeseen something that could have been prevented. Having a dog off leash in non off leash areas does not even begin to fall into the category.

Plain and simple people dog owners need to stop making decisions that just because they believe there dogs to be friendly and well behave that it is okay for them to be off leash and it is okay to go up to people. It is rude behavior on the part of the human.

 

[JLSOhio51]

I have enjoyed this thread for two reasons: 1). It is a topic that I am interested in; and 2). The responses allow me some small insight into the mind of each of the posters. I will admit, however, that I see the same short sighted thinking that permeates nearly every other online (and face-to-face) discussion that occurs on most topics of any import. Nearly every comment begins with the unspoken "I'm right, the other guy has no right to take the position he takes" (except for Labgirl. Labgirl, thank you for acknowledging the fact that there are at least two sides to every discussion).

Most states have decided that they see no reason at this time to require leash laws. I think that stinks, but like it or not, that is the case. Therefore, pet owners in many jurisdictions may legally walk their companions off leash. I can complain that anyone who does so is/isn't a responsible pet owner, but they have that right, like it or not. Leash laws or not, my responsibility to keep my pet safe doesn't change. If that means crossing the street like a kid's game of hopscotch to keep the pup safe, then that is what I should do. Even when there are leash laws, accidents happen and people will often break the rules.

I can become "furious" about conversations, or refer to those who think differently than I do as "idiots" or "morons", but none of that changes my basic responsibility to do all I can to keep my companion safe.