Veterinary Position on Debarking

[DogIsMyMantra]

Docking has recently been banned here, which I think is a slippery slope. It's a particuarly touchy subject at the moment as the law is peculiar in preventing legally docked dogs (working gundogs etc) from exhibiting at shows with a fee paying audience (Crufts).

Apparently the rules in some parts of Europe are being extended to dogs that were legally docked in the country of origin and visiting the country. This past summer, Stacy and her amazing schnauzer Krusher travelled all the way to the Czech Republic as part of the US Team for the European Open Agility Competition only to be told that she could not compete because of the cosmetic alterations to her dog. (it was not listed in any of the entry information and the US Team didn't even think to look into it) It was pretty crushing to be prohibited from competing after investing so much time, money and hope in traveling abroad to represent the US.

 

[danisgoat]

Apparently the rules in some parts of Europe are being extended to dogs that were legally docked in the country of origin and visiting the country. This past summer, Stacy and her amazing schnauzer Krusher travelled all the way to the Czech Republic as part of the US Team for the European Open Agility Competition only to be told that she could not compete because of the cosmetic alterations to her dog. (it was not listed in any of the entry information and the US Team didn't even think to look into it) It was pretty crushing to be prohibited from competing after investing so much time, money and hope in traveling abroad to represent the US.

That is just absolutely terrible.

 

[Emmasmom]

I'm lost - how did we get from debarking to spaying/neutering and docking? Should these not be in another thread?

 

[Ann]

I'm lost - how did we get from debarking to spaying/neutering and docking? Should these not be in another thread?

You're absolutely right. Let's stay on topic here....

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

I'm lost - how did we get from debarking to spaying/neutering and docking? Should these not be in another thread?

Easy transition, because someone asked why wouldn't they start legislating for something easy like docking/cropping, then extend it to debarking? And that slippery slope is exactly why we fight all legislation, no matter how small. Good examples of what they have done in Europe and Australia were given.

 

[Emmasmom]

You're absolutely right. Let's stay on topic here....

Thank you Ann.

 

[ortegah]

My question to the people wanting to pass this law. Why don't they start with something such as tail and/or ear docking. I would think they would be cosmetic surgeries with no apparent reasons other than looks. If you want to start meddling, why not start with that.

Amen! Cutting ears, just so they look like some organization says they should look like is much more cruel than debarking in my opinion.

 

[OntarioSheltie]

Amen! Cutting ears, just so they look like some organization says they should look like is much more cruel than debarking in my opinion.

Yes, I'm somewhat on the fence about tail docking, but think that ear cropping is terrible.

And I still think that de-vocalizing should be an option for people.

 

[ortegah]

Yes, I'm somewhat on the fence about tail docking, but think that ear cropping is terrible.

And I still think that de-vocalizing should be an option for people.

The problem lies in the education of it all. When you hear people talk about debarking they tend to say that they cut out the dog's vocal cords and then go on about how terribly painful blah blah blah... The procedure itself is quick and less painful than so many other surgeries and they don't take away their ability to bark(I know we all know that here on this board of course ). I haven't personally had the need to debark any of my guys, but I have a friend who is getting hers done and I'd say that they most definitely need it done. Right now she is using a shock collar and not only do I think that continually shocking a dog is much more cruel than a one time surgery, but it doesn't stop them from barking and I do believe that some dogs start to go a little loopy from the continual shocking. We do have shelties here so we all know about what a neurotic sheltie looks like

 

[The Quahog]

I'm lost - how did we get from debarking to spaying/neutering and docking? Should these not be in another thread?

Wellllllll.........
(And, I assure you, nothing makes my staff cringe more than when someone asks me a simple question during an office call, like 'And he's a male so he definitely should be neutered, right?' and, instead of the 'easy way out' I lean back on my armrest table and go 'Wellllll.....'

(Essay forthcoming, feel free to pass.)

The original topic concerned proposed legislation to make debarking illegal, and the response of the local veterinary association when asked for input.
There are 2 main arguments against the law- 1) debarking is ok, just generally misunderstood, and 2) I don't want the government telling me what to do with my dog. It's a dangerous slippery slope.
I can certainly sympathize with the latter view, more than you can imagine. Lawmakers do not science well. (If they do anything well.) Their decisions are based on input from noisy demanding special interest groups, electoral concerns, and (legal) bribery. The merits of the legislation are rarely a consideration.
Examples:1) Leg hold traps remained legal in RI long after they should have been banned, because a few influential trappers (and we had VERY few) had the ear of their local rep, who fought the ban, and had influence in the legislature.
2) Our silly Guardian Law.
3)When i was on the exec board of the state asociation we had to watch for laws which impacted us. One, actually proposed, made it illegal for veterinarians to perform euthanasia, because someone 'important' had had a bad experience and asked their rep for a favor.
And the list goes on.
Science should be based on facts, not agendas, so legislation concerning science generally is not well thought out.

So, no I don't want politicians or the legal system telling me what to do with my dog either. I can oppose the procedure (at least for 'routine' use) without demanding a law to make it illegal.

However - there is another side to the story. But as this post is getting a little long , to be continued...