Calliesmom
Moderator
I was looking at the UKC website since Justicemom mentioned showing there and that CHW were allowed. They also allow blue eyes in sable merles in addition to the blues. seems they are less restrictive about colors than AKC 
White factored
- Thread starter Strider
- Start date
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
Yes, UKC does allow CHWs, and blue eyed sable merles 
SheltieLuver
Forums Enthusiast
I've wondered about that quite often. Doesn't seem fair to me. I've never gotten the thing about not allowing blue-eyed sable merles either.... oh well.
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
I researched it a while back, and came across some older article that said up until 1952, CHWs *were* in fact allowed in the AKC conformation ring for shelties.
I read an article a while back that said it was some form of political type move that made it to where CHWs were no longer acceptable in the show ring. I wish I could find the article... It's been a while since I read it. Shame, as it certainly eliminates some stunning dogs from the breed ring).
Personally, I would rather see the CHWs be allowed in the ring over the double merles (yes, I know some double merles are also over 50% white). Merle to merle breedings I would think should be more heavily frowned upon than white factor to white factor, which produces some CHWs. CHWs do not have the same problems associated with double merles.
I also don't see the point in not allowing blue eyes sable merles. There is no health reason to not allow it, and a blue eye certainly doesn't affect structure, type, or movement in any way, shape, or form.
I read an article a while back that said it was some form of political type move that made it to where CHWs were no longer acceptable in the show ring. I wish I could find the article... It's been a while since I read it. Shame, as it certainly eliminates some stunning dogs from the breed ring).
Personally, I would rather see the CHWs be allowed in the ring over the double merles (yes, I know some double merles are also over 50% white). Merle to merle breedings I would think should be more heavily frowned upon than white factor to white factor, which produces some CHWs. CHWs do not have the same problems associated with double merles.
I also don't see the point in not allowing blue eyes sable merles. There is no health reason to not allow it, and a blue eye certainly doesn't affect structure, type, or movement in any way, shape, or form.
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Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
That is what I had read, it was political. Someone was breeding and showing CHW and some others didn't like it or this person something like that and the club vote to change the standard to prevent them for winning. I don't know why blue eyes in sable though.
With some dogs you can't tell they are white factored until they produce a CHW. Most have the white stifles but not always. I was inquiring about a male I like and found out he with white factored. Rats. He did not look it. Kinda of a pain to have a white factered girl. Really limits the choices.
In regards to sable merles, I found the opinions on them can be very strong one way or another. Some don't like it ever and others don't see the harm. I personally won't do sable to merle breedings. I don't what to take a chance with possible merle to merle breeding later if I guess wrong regarding any sables produced. JMHO Others may take that chance. I do like the color though and Ember has 2 sable merle littermates and my friend has a sable merle.
Just not my cup of tea.She is a blue merle with a chip of blue in her left eye. I assumed she was white factored based on the merle gene and Mike's rejection of Coal due to being white factored. I will dig up her pedigree and list it here.
I think they are beautiful.I am clueless about all this stuff. I know what a merle is, I know what a CHW is, but what is white factored?
I personally think both the merles and the CHW dogs are BEAUTIFUL!!!! I'm not a judge at a dog show, but they just look so amazing. And I'd take a blue eyes, sable merle any day of the week!!!
I personally think both the merles and the CHW dogs are BEAUTIFUL!!!! I'm not a judge at a dog show, but they just look so amazing. And I'd take a blue eyes, sable merle any day of the week!!!
tofu pup
Moderator
Hi Strider,
The merle gene and the white-factor gene are two very different things. Deja definitely has the merle gene (that's easy to figure out!), and shouldn't be bred to a merle dog. It can be tricker to figure out if a dog is white-factored, but it's safe to say that, if the dog has white going up the stifle and/or white all the way up the foreleg and into the ruff, s/he's white-factored. Sometimes a dog that doesn't have this pattern will produce a CHW - and then you have to assume that both parents were white-factored.
As has been pointed out, there's absolutely nothing wrong with CHWs. They're just as healthy as their siblings. However, if you're trying to produce dogs that will be competitive in the AKC conformation ring, why not avoid CHWs in your litter? (This is why it's generally best to avoid producing sable merles - you risk ending up with a beautiful puppy that isn't showable because of the blue eyes.) It's interesting to note that CHWs are accepted by the Collie AKC Standard.