Training techniques: Caesar vs. the rest???

[SheltieChe]

I looked at the video again. You are quite correct, he did give the dog a side kick, but more importantly, it was not obvious why he did so! There did not appear to be a reason for "correction", but as soon as he did it, the dog went ape. And then of course, the situation was getting out of control so he had no choice but do force the dog down.

I'm not sure what to think about this. I don't think CM is purposefully cruel, so what's the point of him instigating the behaviour? To get a good TV shot? I can't imagine that.

But let's go back to the question of an overly aggressive dog, and one that is capable of attacking humans.

How WOULD you go about calming that temperment? What WOULD Victoria do, for example?

Barb,
if you look carefully what had happened is CM with husky was closing on with BC owner, when they were almost across each other, husky made a stance- started eyeballing BC. That is when CM made his kick, as saying, " stop this behavior" to which husky answered" who the h... are you to kick me" and lunged for CM which took it as sign of aggression.

 

[BarbV]

Barb,
if you look carefully what had happened is CM with husky was closing on with BC owner, when they were almost across each other, husky made a stance- started eyeballing BC. That is when CM made his kick, as saying, " stop this behavior" to which husky answered" who the h... are you to kick me" and lunged for CM which took it as sign of aggression.

Ok, let's go with that. So the husky is starting to move into aggressive behaviour.

Freeze frame: What should we do to nip it in the bud? We saw what CM did....what are the alternatives?

I'm trying to move this away from CM bashing and into other alternative training techniques.

 

[SheltieChe]

Near death? I doubt it. I am certainly not going to accuse CM of trying to strangle a dog. Nor will I condone it.

you have seen dog's tongue turning different color, you have seen dog having difficult time trying to catch his next breath, you have seen dog being unable to move or crawl away, you have seen erectile stimulation which CM wrongly stated was sign of "dominance"...
there is game on the net where some teens play with strangulating themselves because suffocation brings physical release the only danger wire might not release in time

 

[SheltieChe]

Ok, let's go with that. So the husky is starting to move into aggressive behaviour.

Freeze frame: What should we do to nip it in the bud? We saw what CM did....what are the alternatives?

I'm trying to move this away from CM bashing and into other alternative training techniques.

as with any distraction you work on Distance, Duration and Intensity. CM had a choice of doing u turn himself or asking his assistant with BC to do u turn. Once eye contact is broken and dog follows command start working on behavior you want to see. Then as with any other distraction training start small and ask for behavior you want in your bathroom, living room, football field distance from BC, 100 feet from BC and eventually meeting BC across the street just as we seen.
U turn is much easier to do with dog on GL or snoot loop as even horse is easily directed by the brindle.
Another part - food for the thought- just as we humans don't like everyone we meet, we should not have expectations that our dogs suppose to like every dog they meet either. All I can ask and train for behavior that is tolerable and acceptable under any circumstances.
I would not be surprised to learn husky realized quickly in life that growling and snapping will get him what he wants- human backs away and let him do what he wants... would not be surprised to know that was the reason why owners eventually called CM... dog was out of control... yet it is not a true aggression.... just a learned behavior that got lots of self reinforcement.
Every serious dog trainer I talked to, including Susan Garrett, Susanne Clothier and my school trainers said that they only met a handful truly aggressive dogs in their life, most cases are learned behavior.

 

[Caro]

So much about the approach used is wrong. It should be about setting the dog up for success, not walking the dog into a situation knowing it will react.

I agree with SheltieChe - what about establishing a critical distance, not walking the dogs head on (which is threatening), getting the dog's focus before it reacts, teaching an alternative behaviour, rewarding appropriate behaviour. The dog would do much better on a head collar (not a noose).

In addition the dog should be wearing a muzzle - this is a standard thing for training a dog aggressive dog near other dogs. That way the handler does not need to over-react if something happens.

As it was nothing was solved using that approach and the poor dog was handed in.

 

[JessicaR]

I have a question!

I know the positive method for a dog that chases cars is to desensitise them by taking them far enough away from cars that they dont react and praising them for not reacting, and eventually moving closer.

Now that is all good and well BUT it is not always practical/possible to do this. What if you have a dog that reacts to cars in the house or backyard? How do you stop them when you cant get them far enough away to not react? I have Bailey with my right now and he is a big time car chaser, spins, runs up and down the fence line, barks the whole nine yards! Even after the cars are gone he will stand and stare fixated on where the cars were. I can call him, tried food, and toys nothing works! So far the only things I have found to work is either a leash correction, or Ceasers touch method (and no it is not a hard touch more like you are tapping someone on the shoulder) Once I do that he is back to normal and starts playing or goes and lays down. So now what!!

 

[SheltieChe]

I have a question!

I know the positive method for a dog that chases cars is to desensitise them by taking them far enough away from cars that they dont react and praising them for not reacting, and eventually moving closer.

Now that is all good and well BUT it is not always practical/possible to do this. What if you have a dog that reacts to cars in the house or backyard? How do you stop them when you cant get them far enough away to not react? I have Bailey with my right now and he is a big time car chaser, spins, runs up and down the fence line, barks the whole nine yards! Even after the cars are gone he will stand and stare fixated on where the cars were. I can call him, tried food, and toys nothing works! So far the only things I have found to work is either a leash correction, or Ceasers touch method (and no it is not a hard touch more like you are tapping someone on the shoulder) Once I do that he is back to normal and starts playing or goes and lays down. So now what!!

keeping your pup on leash inside of your big yard is big PITA but that is what I would do, and teach behavior you want while cars passing. Might not take as long as you think it will if you consistent. Ask for behavior you want and stay on most distant side of the fence, then move close etc. You can do it!

 

[JessicaR]

I have been keeping him on a leash because his owners said he acts worse while on the leash. He does try to run from you when you approach him. I really dont think a week with him is going to solve his problems, but that is all the time i have with him before they come get unless they decide to give him up.

I think I will start a thread in the behaior section so as not clog the original thread with my problems!

 

[danisgoat]

Ok, let's go with that. So the husky is starting to move into aggressive behaviour.

Freeze frame: What should we do to nip it in the bud? We saw what CM did....what are the alternatives?

I'm trying to move this away from CM bashing and into other alternative training techniques.

For starters....do not use a BC as the dog on the other end of the leash. They are known for their "stare" and to agitate other dogs. If you are working on getting a certain behavior from a dog and redirecting it, you would start with a less threatening dog on the other leash.

He should have made a u-turn the second the Husky had a reaction.

If he knew dogs as well as he claims he does.....he would know that he should NOT start the training with a BC on the other end of the leash. The fact that he DID use a BC shows me that he just was looking for a reaction and wanted to show his tough act to the detriment of the Husky.

 

[Mikos_Mom]

For starters....do not use a BC as the dog on the other end of the leash. They are known for their "stare" and to agitate other dogs. If you are working on getting a certain behavior from a dog and redirecting it, you would start with a less threatening dog on the other leash.

He should have made a u-turn the second the Husky had a reaction.

If he knew dogs as well as he claims he does.....he would know that he should NOT start the training with a BC on the other end of the leash. The fact that he DID use a BC shows me that he just was looking for a reaction and wanted to show his tough act to the detriment of the Husky.

Not defending CM or his techniques... I just wanted to point out that the BC is used because it's the neighbourhood dog that the husky has had problems with. CM didn't pick the breed to work with... it's a real life scenario that he's dealing with. Husky HATES neighbourhood BC... so CM is tackling the real life problem.